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	<title>Comments on: My Significant Drop in Use of JISCMail Lists</title>
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	<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/</link>
	<description>Reflections on the Web and Web 2.0</description>
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		<title>By: The Decline in JISCMail Use Across the Web Management Community &#171; UK Web Focus</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-79681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Decline in JISCMail Use Across the Web Management Community &#171; UK Web Focus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 08:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-79681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this year I published a blog post entitled &#8220;My Significant Drop in Use of JISCMail Lists&#8221; which described how the numbers of messages I have published to the web-support JISCMail [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this year I published a blog post entitled &#8220;My Significant Drop in Use of JISCMail Lists&#8221; which described how the numbers of messages I have published to the web-support JISCMail [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decommissioning / Mothballing Mailing Lists &#171; UK Web Focus</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Decommissioning / Mothballing Mailing Lists &#171; UK Web Focus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] My Significant Drop in Use of JISCMail&#160;Lists [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My Significant Drop in Use of JISCMail&nbsp;Lists [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Nicole
    Thanks for the links.  Useful information - if somewhat confusing!  Looking at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/trend/images/lists_and_their_activities.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this image&lt;/a&gt; (taken from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/trend/lists.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JISCMail Lists Trends Data&lt;/a&gt;) it would appear that most lists have 0 messages, followed by lists with 100 messages appears to be tiny.  Does that mean that a lot of the overhead in the service is taken up in managing dead lists?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nicole<br />
    Thanks for the links.  Useful information &#8211; if somewhat confusing!  Looking at <a href="http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/trend/images/lists_and_their_activities.png" rel="nofollow">this image</a> (taken from the <a href="http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/trend/lists.html" rel="nofollow">JISCMail Lists Trends Data</a>) it would appear that most lists have 0 messages, followed by lists with 100 messages appears to be tiny.  Does that mean that a lot of the overhead in the service is taken up in managing dead lists?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole Harris</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nicole Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oops, sorry. here: http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/janet/trend/services/application_services/electronic_mail_services/jiscmail/trend/distribution.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, sorry. here: <a href="http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/janet/trend/services/application_services/electronic_mail_services/jiscmail/trend/distribution.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/janet/trend/services/application_services/electronic_mail_services/jiscmail/trend/distribution.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nicole Harris</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nicole Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Your figures showing a 9% increase in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 are interesting – but why are only these two quarters cited? It occurs to me that if such statistics were published openly this might provide a useful resources for developers to data mine.&quot;

Mostly because i am just lazy and only looked at the last report :-) All of the data is publicly available here: http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Your figures showing a 9% increase in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 are interesting – but why are only these two quarters cited? It occurs to me that if such statistics were published openly this might provide a useful resources for developers to data mine.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mostly because i am just lazy and only looked at the last report :-) All of the data is publicly available here: <a href="http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mu.jisc.ac.uk/servicedata/jiscmail/</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Nicole

Thanks for your response.

You are, of course, correct in saying that I am an early adopter of various communications and collaboration technologies.  But just as when I promoted the Web to an initially sceptical audience who were convinced that Gopher was the future back in 1993, sometimes early adopters correctly identify significant trends ahead of the game!  These observations were intended to reflect trends in the Web management community.  As you say some communities are satisfied users of mailing lists - and I am on JISCMail lists for museums and public libraries which are definitely thriving.

I would say, though, that use of more open environments (such as blogs and Twitter) enable ideas and topics discussed in mailing lists to be more easily accessed by people who chose not to subscribe to such lists - for example I would not be interested in joining one of your Shibboleth lists but I do find your blog keeps me informed of developments and your tweets allow be to easily find out about new resources and participate in amplified events.

Your figures showing a 9% increase in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 are interesting - but why are only these two quarters cited?  It occurs to me that if such statistics were published openly this might provide a useful resources for developers to data mine.

Of course such statistics should be treated with caution. For example every few weeks I go to my JISCMail-errors email folder and delete hundreds of messages were had failed to be delivered (are such figures included in the statistics); I receive JISCMail messages from a significant numbers of lists delivered to a GMail account so that, potentially  I can search across such lists in ways not possible using the JISCMail search facility (in reality I have not accessed this account for a long time, so the delivery statistics are misleading);  etc.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nicole</p>
<p>Thanks for your response.</p>
<p>You are, of course, correct in saying that I am an early adopter of various communications and collaboration technologies.  But just as when I promoted the Web to an initially sceptical audience who were convinced that Gopher was the future back in 1993, sometimes early adopters correctly identify significant trends ahead of the game!  These observations were intended to reflect trends in the Web management community.  As you say some communities are satisfied users of mailing lists &#8211; and I am on JISCMail lists for museums and public libraries which are definitely thriving.</p>
<p>I would say, though, that use of more open environments (such as blogs and Twitter) enable ideas and topics discussed in mailing lists to be more easily accessed by people who chose not to subscribe to such lists &#8211; for example I would not be interested in joining one of your Shibboleth lists but I do find your blog keeps me informed of developments and your tweets allow be to easily find out about new resources and participate in amplified events.</p>
<p>Your figures showing a 9% increase in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 are interesting &#8211; but why are only these two quarters cited?  It occurs to me that if such statistics were published openly this might provide a useful resources for developers to data mine.</p>
<p>Of course such statistics should be treated with caution. For example every few weeks I go to my JISCMail-errors email folder and delete hundreds of messages were had failed to be delivered (are such figures included in the statistics); I receive JISCMail messages from a significant numbers of lists delivered to a GMail account so that, potentially  I can search across such lists in ways not possible using the JISCMail search facility (in reality I have not accessed this account for a long time, so the delivery statistics are misleading);  etc.  </p>
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		<title>By: Nicole Harris</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nicole Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Brian

I think that it depends on a number of factors:

1.  Type of user.  By the nature of your work, you are likely to be an early adopter of new communication technologies, and so are your audience.  However, say, a list on Children&#039;s Literature is not likely to see a significant number of people choosing twitter over mailing lists. I don&#039;t know the typical demographic of jiscmail users but i would imagine a large percentage are in the &#039;non-early adopter&#039; category.  

2.  Currency of topic. The JISC-Shibboleth list has shown a steady growth in use and it is rare when a day goes by without it being used.  At the moment the discussion is mostly around migration to shib2 - obviously a very current topic.

3.  Type of list.  as you note, some lists are supporting active communities, whilst others just serve as announcement lists.  Some lists start off as one and slide in to others, hence a decrease in traffic.

I think all of these factors have an impact.  JISC Monitoring Unit reports a 9% increase in messages delivered by JISCmail in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 - so the service continues to show no sign of plateau or decline.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brian</p>
<p>I think that it depends on a number of factors:</p>
<p>1.  Type of user.  By the nature of your work, you are likely to be an early adopter of new communication technologies, and so are your audience.  However, say, a list on Children&#8217;s Literature is not likely to see a significant number of people choosing twitter over mailing lists. I don&#8217;t know the typical demographic of jiscmail users but i would imagine a large percentage are in the &#8216;non-early adopter&#8217; category.  </p>
<p>2.  Currency of topic. The JISC-Shibboleth list has shown a steady growth in use and it is rare when a day goes by without it being used.  At the moment the discussion is mostly around migration to shib2 &#8211; obviously a very current topic.</p>
<p>3.  Type of list.  as you note, some lists are supporting active communities, whilst others just serve as announcement lists.  Some lists start off as one and slide in to others, hence a decrease in traffic.</p>
<p>I think all of these factors have an impact.  JISC Monitoring Unit reports a 9% increase in messages delivered by JISCmail in Q4 2008/09 as compared to Q4 2007/08 &#8211; so the service continues to show no sign of plateau or decline.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76135</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was intending to look at trends over a couple of mailing lists, but JISCMail doesn&#039;t provide the means of doing this easily.  But if I look at the web-support JISCMail list is seems that the first post published in 1999 was number &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;D=0&amp;H=0&amp;O=T&amp;T=0&amp;X=3F3F406BBA9D66C39C&amp;q=&amp;s=&amp;f=&amp;a=1999&amp;b=1999&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1145&lt;/a&gt; and the last was &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;m=2415&amp;D=0&amp;H=0&amp;O=T&amp;T=0&amp;X=3F3F&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2465&lt;/a&gt;, giving a total of 1,319 posts in the year if, as I believe, the posts are numbered consecutively.  For 2009 the first post was number &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;X=4ECC8F2D197940C03B&amp;q=&amp;s=&amp;f=&amp;a=2009&amp;b=2009&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;12031&lt;/a&gt; and the last &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;m=12231&amp;X=6683311729636DDC21&amp;a=2009&amp;b=2009&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1260&lt;/a&gt;, giving 129 posts in the year.    

I think this demonstrates that the significant drop in JISCMail usage is reflected in the wider community (although I should add that I have not checked these figures carefully).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was intending to look at trends over a couple of mailing lists, but JISCMail doesn&#8217;t provide the means of doing this easily.  But if I look at the web-support JISCMail list is seems that the first post published in 1999 was number <a href="https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;D=0&amp;H=0&amp;O=T&amp;T=0&amp;X=3F3F406BBA9D66C39C&amp;q=&amp;s=&amp;f=&amp;a=1999&amp;b=1999" rel="nofollow">1145</a> and the last was <a href="https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;m=2415&amp;D=0&amp;H=0&amp;O=T&amp;T=0&amp;X=3F3F" rel="nofollow">2465</a>, giving a total of 1,319 posts in the year if, as I believe, the posts are numbered consecutively.  For 2009 the first post was number <a href="https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;X=4ECC8F2D197940C03B&amp;q=&amp;s=&amp;f=&amp;a=2009&amp;b=2009" rel="nofollow">12031</a> and the last <a href="https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?S2=WEB-SUPPORT&amp;m=12231&amp;X=6683311729636DDC21&amp;a=2009&amp;b=2009" rel="nofollow">1260</a>, giving 129 posts in the year.    </p>
<p>I think this demonstrates that the significant drop in JISCMail usage is reflected in the wider community (although I should add that I have not checked these figures carefully).</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Kelly (UK Web Focus)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But there are many more than two mans of communication - there are multiple mailing lists, provided by a wide range of providers and there are blogs, wikis fora, etc.  And communications also takes place in the real world in many different places - at conferences, seminars, in the office and even down the pub. So let&#039;s accept such diversity. And remember that for open resources, Google provides a means of breaking down such silos, as well as other tools such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://markmail.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Markmail&lt;/a&gt; (e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;http://markmail.org/search/?q=jisc%20federation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;search Markmail for &#039;jisc federation&#039;&lt;/a&gt;). Sadly JISCMail &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; a silo, which doesn&#039;t expose its resources to other services :-(]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But there are many more than two mans of communication &#8211; there are multiple mailing lists, provided by a wide range of providers and there are blogs, wikis fora, etc.  And communications also takes place in the real world in many different places &#8211; at conferences, seminars, in the office and even down the pub. So let&#8217;s accept such diversity. And remember that for open resources, Google provides a means of breaking down such silos, as well as other tools such as <a href="http://markmail.org/" rel="nofollow">Markmail</a> (e.g. <a href="http://markmail.org/search/?q=jisc%20federation" rel="nofollow">search Markmail for &#8216;jisc federation&#8217;</a>). Sadly JISCMail <strong>is</strong> a silo, which doesn&#8217;t expose its resources to other services :-(</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Nolan</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Nolan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But you posted 17 times to WEBSITE-INFO-MGT in 2009 compared to 16 in 2008 and 20 in 2007.  Perhaps it says more about the &quot;WEB-SUPPORT&quot; community than mailing lists?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you posted 17 times to WEBSITE-INFO-MGT in 2009 compared to 16 in 2008 and 20 in 2007.  Perhaps it says more about the &#8220;WEB-SUPPORT&#8221; community than mailing lists?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/my-significant-drop-in-use-of-jiscmail-lists/#comment-76118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ukwebfocus.wordpress.com/?p=3775#comment-76118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m concerned that right now we have two parallel and siloed means of communication (twitter etc and mail lists). Stuff falls between the gaps right now, I suspect once we push on through to which ever becomes dominant that problem will go away. But right now I get frustrated as to exactly where some conversations are taking place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m concerned that right now we have two parallel and siloed means of communication (twitter etc and mail lists). Stuff falls between the gaps right now, I suspect once we push on through to which ever becomes dominant that problem will go away. But right now I get frustrated as to exactly where some conversations are taking place.</p>
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